Kinks mailing list Digest, Number 2068, Thursday, 10 July 2003
Today's Topics:
Ding dong ["Rob Kopp" <rob.kopp@xs4all.nl>]
Some time ago I asked on the KPS "Does Ding Dong ring a bell to
someone?"
There was a reason to ask that question.
Some time ago a Dutch Kinks-fan received an MP3 from an American Dave Berry fan
called Ding Dong. It should be a song from an acetate by The Ravens. As there
were some doubts about this (the acetate is not mentioned in Doug Hinman's
Kinks-bible) the song was sent to Doug as well. Although Doug didn't know about
the song, he was almost convinced that the singer was Dave Davies. Another
reason to think the song could be by The Ravens could be the fact that the
guitar riff was similar to the one of One fine day, one of the first
Dave-compositions, that was covered early 1964 by Shel Naylor (it remains one
of the best Kinks-covers ever). For those who have never heard that cover: it's
a descending riff like the one of Hit the road Jack by The Stampeders
(featuring Wolfman Jack).
So according to Doug Hinman it could well be The Ravens. Was it wishful
thinking?
I'm busy with a new book about Dutch beat from the 60's and suddenly my eyes
fell on a single by Dutch Indorock-band The Crazy Rockers:
Giddy up (a ding dong) / Rosita my love (Delta DS 1070, Holland 1963).
As "Dave" is also singing Giddy up a ding dong, I though a little
investigation was the least I could do. I converted the MP3 to a WAV-file, put
it on a CD
and went to recordshop Da Capo in Utrecht, the best shop in the world! Owner
Michel Terstegen was on holiday, but I played Ding dong to Michel van der Woude
and another guy I had never seen before. They were very helpful. The new guy
said he had heard a song like that before and started to look if he could find
it. And he did! He came with a copy of English freakbeat vol. 4 (Archive
International Productions AIP 10051, USA 1989).
LP
CD
Track 7 (the last song on side 1 of the LP) is Ding Dong by The Snobs.
We put the record on to see if it was the same song and to our surprise it was
EXACTLY THE SAME VERSION as the one that should be by The Ravens! I couldn't
believe my ears!
It has happened before that a Kinks track was released under another
name, like The Muswell Ravens on the LP Searching in the wilderness, so that
didn't prevent
me from buying the album (you never know). The sleeve notes say: "Done up
in 17th Century attire, powdered periwigs and all, these boys had a minor hit
in '64 with Buckle shoe stomp, but their piece de resistance was a Swedish-only
45 coupling a fine version of Heartbreak Hotel with this gritty stomper, much
better known in its later hit rendidion by The Equals".
Da Capo also had a Spanish album by The Crazy Rockers with Giddy up. The sleeve
was in Spanish, but fortunately Freddie Bell & The Bell Boys wasn't translated.
The song is written by Bell-Latfanzi.
Back home I looked in several books:
- The original by Freddie Bell & The Bell Boys is named in the "Record
Collector Rare Record Price Guide 1995" and also in "Der Grosse
Single Preiskatalog Rock & Pop 1996": Giddy up a ding dong / I said it
and I'm glad, Mercury MT 122 (UK, 1956, 78 rpm), Mercury 45-694 (Denmark and
Sweden, 1956)
- According to the "Music Master Tracks Catalogue" Giddy up a ding
dong is done by Freddie Bell & The Bell Boys, Equals, Sensational Alex
Harvey Band
and Tommy Steele.
- The book "British Beat" says about the Snobs: Quartet - personnel
unknown. Little is known about this band save that they released one tremendous
single,
Buckle shoe stomp / Stand and deliver (Decca F 11867).
and on Internet: "The Tapestry of Delights"
Personnel: John Boulden, Eddie Gilbert, Colin Sandland, Peter Yerral.
45: Buckle Shoe Stomp/Stand And Deliver (Decca F 11867, 1964).
This band wore buckled shoes and powdered wigs to deliver Buckle Shoe Stomp
which had a pounding beat and raucous vocals. The group achieved a wider
audience in Scandinavia than here; they were very big in Finland! They
relocated to Sweden where they issued a further gritty 45, Ding Dong /
Heartbreak Hotel. Compilations:
- Buckle Shoe Stomp, Stand And Deliver on The Garage Zone, Vol. 2
- Buckle Shoe Stomp on Sixties Lost And Found, Vol. 2 and Pop Inside The '60s,
Vol. 2
- Ding Dong on English Freakbeat, Vol. 4
- Heartbreak Hotel on Searching In The Wilderness.
What? Searching in the wilderness? I have that album!
It's also named in Doug's book (page 452) because it has a song by The Kinks
under the name Muswell Ravens. Sleeve notes of the LP: "The ridiculous
outfits the Snobs popularized (?!!) do nothing to detract their spirited
approach to raving-up anything from Buckle Shoe Stomp to Heartbreak Hotel.
Enjoying most of their admittedly limited success in Sweden, this 1965 release
features an awasomely live, wild sound. A video of an appearance on the Red
Skelton T.V. show in late 1964 has reportedly survived, rekindling Snob-mania
amongst those already in the know. One could hardly do worse than to join
them!"
I played the song Heartbreak hotel and without a doubt the singer of Heartbreak
hotel is the same as the singer of Ding Dong.
Does this mean we suddenly have 2 (!) new Ravens tracks?
At this point I thought: If that Swedish single exist, it must be The Snobs. If
it does not exist, it can be The Ravens.
The story so far was the situation one week before the 6th Kinks fan meeting. I
asked the other organisers if this story could become an item during the
meeting
and ofcourse it could. I told the others that I would try to find out if that
Swedish single existed. You never know with liner notes on bootlegs. It could
well be that they're just making up a story. I couln't find the single in any
price guide I have (they only mention that Buckle shoe stomp-single), so I
contacted Belgian garage-collector Koen Goossens (Maybe you remember his name
from my Kinks-covers-contributions. Koen has sent me a lot of garage versions).
He emailed me back the same day: "That Swedish Snobs single DOES exist:
Heartbreak hotell (sic) b/w Ding dong (Decca F 44419).
It's very rare indeed. You can count on 150 Euro for a mint copy. So no Kinks
connection. That should have been great, 'cause it's two killer versions.
Anyway, you can verify all this on the scan". Included was a JPG-file of
the sleeve (in black and white).
(Much later Mats Larsson send me an email that he had Snobs-site: www.buckleshoebeat.hagen.web.surftown.se
with the sleeve in colour)
This was 2 days before the fan meeting. How I wish Koen had told me the
single did NOT exist!
I decided to tell the story anyway, but as I can't imagine that a Ravens
acetate has been issued officially by a wellknown recordcompany like Decca I
ended my story during the meeting with a bit of an anti climax: Too bad it's
probably just The Snobs and not The Ravens.
But after the meeting there were some new developments. The Dutch fan who had
given me Ding dong had emailed my Snobs-story to his provider, that American
Dave Berry fan. His answer:
- Ding dong comes from a one-sided acetate
- He knew The Snobs personally (he said he was busy with a CD with their
complete recordings) and The Snobs had assured him that they NEVER had recorded
Ding dong.
I simply just don't know what to believe anymore.
Maybe some of you KPS'ers know more? Maybe Pete Quaife can confirm if The
Ravens have recorded Ding dong and/or Heartbreak hotel?
I'll try to put the scan of the sleeve of the Snobs-single and MP3's of Ding
dong and Heartbreak hotel on my website so everyone can have a look&listen,
but that won't be before this weekend, so you'll have to be patient for a
couple of days.
To be continued...?
Kinks mailing list Digest, Number 2069, Friday, 11 July 2003
Today's Topics:
Re: A question for you : Ding dong [Pete Quaife]
Betr: Re: A question for you : Ding dong rob.kopp@xs4all.nl]
From: Pete Quaife
Subject: Re: A question for you : Ding dong
Anyway, yes I have heard of this Ding Dong acetate and I can honestly say I do
not remember doing anything like that at Regent Sound. That the record(s) were
released on Decca makes it all the more implausible - we never recorded for
Decca. However, it would be a GREAT help if I could hear these songs. I could
easily recognise any of our voices - even if it was from the middle of the last
century! Let me know Rob's website where I can listen to these recordings and
maybe we can finish this for once and for all.
ps. We have never recorded 'heartbreak hotel'.
reeegards, PeteQ
-------------------------
From: rob.kopp@xs4all.nl
Subject: Betr: Re: A question for you : Ding dong
Dear Neil and Pete,
Neil and Pete: both thanks for your quick reactions.
This is what I was hoping for. I guess WHEN Ding dong is done by The Ravens,
Dave and Pete are the only future Kinks-members playing on it (Maybe Ray is as
well, but Mick surely isn't in '63). As I don't think Dave would take the
time to answer such a question, I'm glad Pete does. I really appreciate it.
I can imagine we'll get some speculations about Ding Dong on the mailing list.
The only answer that will matter to me is Pete's. Even Doug Hinman was almost
sure it was Dave who is singing. After my mail he isn't that sure anymore (he
has sent a reaction as well).
Anyway: I have an MP3 of Ding dong. I still have to make an MP3 of Heartbreak
hotel, but when I'm reading Pete's answer, that is of no importance anymore.
I'll put the MP3 of Ding dong on my homepage coming Saturday.
You can find my homepage when you search for KOPP POP PAGE
You can also find it in the Links-section of Dave Emlen's excellent Kinks Web
Site.
Pete: I'm looking forward to your reaction when you've listened to Ding dong.
All the best to both of you,
Rob Kopp
[I sent this info to Pete along with Rob's website URL: http://www.platenclubutrecht.nl
-Neil]
Kinks mailing list Digest, Number 2070, Monday, 14 July 2003
Today's Topics:
Ding dong ["Rob Kopp" <rob.kopp@xs4all.nl>]
Re: Ding dong [Pete Quaife]
From: "Rob Kopp" <koppr@worldonline.nl>
Subject: Ding dong
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:27:41 +0200
I've made a Ravens-page on my homepage http://www.platenclubutrecht.nl with MP3's of
Ding dong and Heartbreak hotel
and the sleeves of English freakbeat vol. 4, Searching in the wilderness and
the Snobs-single so everyone can have a look and listen.
Look forward to your reactions.
Rob Kopp
--------------
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:28:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pete Quaife
Subject: Re: Ding dong
Rob.
Last night I heard the questionable 'Heartbreak Hotel' recording and I
can definitely assure you that it is NOT the Kinks or Dave Davies. Yes, there
are phrases and tones that mimic Dave but it is NOT Dave. Abso-fu*king-lutely
NOT! I look forward to hearing the Giddy Up recording which I should be
receiving shortly. I will let you know my decision then.
Regards, PeteQ
<sent later>
Ok....! Here it is! For once and for bloody all! I have listened now to BOTH
Heratbreak Hotel and Ding Dong. I can now state EMPHATICALLY that NEITHER one
has anything to do with the Kinks. Not as the Kinks, The Ravens, The Boll
Weevils, The Ray Davies Quartet or any other name. I admit that the voice is
very Dave Davies but HE'S SINGING IN TUNE! THAT should have been your first
clue that it wasn't Dave! Also the guitar work, the bass playing and the drumming
is so out in left field that we would have been ashamed to have finalised the
demo. No, it is NOT the Kinks - in any shape or form. And I swear this on my
Lawyer's deathbed!
Yours in hope that this will shut everybody up,
Peter Quaife.
Kinks mailing list Digest, Number 2071, Tuesday, 15 July 2003
Today's Topics:
Ding Dong [Jim Henning <J-Henning@neiu.edu>]
Ding Dong DANG! [Marianne30@aol.com]
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:09:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jim Henning <J-Henning@neiu.edu>
Subject: Ding Dong
"Ding Dong" sounds like Mike Smith of the Dave Clark Five to me, or
somebody trying to sound like him. "Heartbreak Hotel" sounds
kind of like on of the early incarnations Spinal Tap. :)
[On Dave Davies' message board, he emphatically denies having anything to do
with the two tracks. - Neil]
----------------------------------------
From: Marianne30@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:50:47 EDT
Subject: Ding Dong DANG!
This is really REALLY a tough one!!! I agree that Heartbreak Hotel is NOT Dave
Davies, but I SWEAR the vocals on Ding Dong (and what a godawful song that is!)
are SO Dave, it is hard to imagine anyone else in the universe singing like
that. The guitarist does not sound Dave at all -- too Travis Wammack
style. Drums sound Bobby Graham though! Is it possible that Dave did some
demo vocals without the Kinks????
I think the way to clear it up is to hear any further vocals by the Snobs. Anyone got an MP3 of Buckle-Shoe
Stomp?
Marianne
the Dave Davies Message Board: Q & A with Dave Davies: Dave: IS THIS YOU??
By Marianne Spellman (Marianne) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 02:08 pm:
Dave, there is a huge controversy in Kinks-land at the
minute over an acetate that has surfaced that sounds SO much like you, it is
amazing. Pete Q. says no, what do you say? Take a listen!
http://home-3.worldonline.nl/~koppr/index.htm
Dying to hear!,
Marianne
By Sharon (Katieanne) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 02:13 pm:
Hey Marianne, we're talking about the same thing in
the first 2 solo albums thread. I dunno, Pete sounds rather extremely sure it's
not... mainly because the playing is very sloppy and the singer is singing in
tune, gulp. But boy his voice does sound like Dave's. I dunno, I don't hear the
cockney accent either though.
~Sharon~
By Dave Davies (Dave) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 09:55 am:
You cannot be serious. Guilty before proven innoncent
eh? No and No. Straight in the trash WITH IT!.
THANKS
DAVE
Kinks mailing list Digest, Number 2072, Wednesday, 16 July 2003
Today's Topics:
Ding Dong ["Peggy Wedding" <pwedding@xs4all.nl>]
From: "Peggy Wedding" <pwedding@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Ding Dong
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:21:28 +0200
I'm glad we don't have to speculate about Ding dong and Heartbreak hotel
anymore. No Ravens or
whatsoever. I fully believe Pete Quaife.
Rob
Van: eddy gilbert <eddygilbert@bigpond.com>
Aan: rob.kopp@xs4all.nl <rob.kopp@xs4all.nl>
Datum: vrijdag 15 augustus 2003 17:18
Onderwerp: The Snobs - Ding Dong
Perhaps I
can help you with your questions regarding The Snobs.
Following
the mild sucess of Buckle Shoe Stomp/Stand and Deliver In Scandinavia, early
1964 and a sucessfull tour of Sweden and Denmark in the autum that year, Decca
were keen to keep the ball rolling and supplied the band a "demo"
made by a group which sounded very much like The Rolling Stones, playing Giddy
Up A Ding Dong, which they wanted them to record.
The Snobs
countered by giving Decca a tape of them doing Love Potion Number Nine, which
they had recorded in Garry Paxtons studio in Los Angeles in April that year.
All of The
Snobs and especialy the drummer thought that Giddy Up A Ding Dong was crap and
L.P. No. 9 was a winner (The Searchers proved us right a couple of months
later) Decca had all the cards however and as was normal for the next twenty
years, they got what they wanted,
The drums on
this recording were overdubbed as Eddy Gilbert, the Snobs drummer was
unable to give them the sound they wanted,due to shortage of tallent and severe
lack of enthusiasm.
I am very
confident of my facts as I was the drummer with The Snobs from conception to
demise.
If you want
to hear Buckle Shoe Stomp/Stand and Deliver, visit the "British
Pathe" movie site, type in "The Snobs" and you can watch and
listen at the same time.
Regards
Eddy Gilbert
I was a
member of the SNOBS
I was the
lead guitar and lead singer
we recorded
for DECCA
Buckle
Shoe Stomp ( Sandland Boulden Spencer) #2 in
Sweden
Stand
and deliver ( Sandland
Boulden)
Heart Break
Hotel
Ding Dong
Did the Red
Skelton TV Show April 1964If you need any more info
Regards
Colin
Sandland
T H I S I S T H E L A S
T T H I N G A B O U T T H I S M
A T T E R, U N L E S S T H E R E A R
E N E W D E V E L O P M E N T S
When the singer of The Snobs sounds like Dave, the singer of Dutch band
Weetjewel sounds like Ray.
Weetjewel (Dutch for the stopword "You know") was a band from my
hometown Utrecht with only one single:
Lila lovin' Lola / The chronical irresistable popcult illness (Omega 35.781,
The Netherlands 1967).
The a-side has a couple of Kinks-connections:
- The music is based on Sittin' on my sofa
- The text is already about a Lola
- The singer sounds more like Ray Davies than Ray Davies himself, especially in
"Now's the time to prove that I'm a super sexy fella indeed"
The b-side with it's funny title has no Kinks-connections at all.
Back to PLUT
page (website of
Platenclub Utrecht) or to KOPP POP PAGE (homepage of Rob Kopp)